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What to do with my converted UK campervan?

Hello,

I have a 2005 Citroen Relay 2.2-litre van I converted to a campervan in the UK. I am looking into registering it here, as I have moved back permanently. I went through the UK DVLA and converted it officially, but they did not change the vehicle category. It is N1. I checked this with them when I got the log book back and they said it remains as is, a commerical vehicle.

Here I understand I need to go through the whole palaver again and get an engineer to sign off the conversion, so it is MI, passenger vehicle. If I am looking at this thing correctly, I would be paying €900+ tax? Onto insurance, any idea what I would be paying on this size vehicle? I have two years' no claims driving it in the UK. Do they accept UK no claims here? It's hard to find the information online as you need to enter your reg and as it doesn't have an Irish reg yet, I have met some dead ends. The van is not worth much and it looks like it will cost me a whole lot more to run it here than in the UK. I am trying to get an idea before I start spending money, if it's a good idea to keep it, leave it on the drive or see if I can take it back or sell it to a UK driver. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

E O'Mahony O'Mahony (Cork City)

Jul 2018 Filed under: commercial vehicle

Expert answer

Hi there,

OK, as a camper van or a van, you’re going to be paying the same Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) when you bring it into the country, which will be 13.3 per cent of the Irish market selling price, as decided upon by the Revenue Commissioners. Now, whether they will accept the vehicle as being a camper van or a plain van is a bit of a finger-in-the-air exercise, but the most likely outcome is that they’ll take whatever the DVLA tells them, and it’ll remain as an N1 vehicle. That’s bad news from a motor tax point of view, but it’s equally not the worst news ever — it means you’ll pay €333 a year to tax it, rather than the camper van rate of €102. As for insurance, sadly no-claims bonuses are very rarely, if ever, transferable between jurisdictions so you’ll most likely be starting from scratch. I’d try and find a good broker to see if they can track you down a deal. 


Why do delivery charges vary so much?

Hi,

I am interested in buying a new Ford Fiesta; the model I am interested in is priced online at €20,150. One dealer in the Cork area quoted me €22,000 for the exact same thing, another quoted €21,395, making delivery charges €1,850 and €1,245 respectively. Audi quotes €650 delivery for the A1. Would you ask Ford Ireland for a comment and if it intends to do anything about it?

Thanks

Pat

Pat Mc Sweeney (Cork City)

Jun 2018 Filed under: miscellaneous

Expert answer

Hi Pat,

The problem is that Ford Ireland, legally, cannot impose delivery charges on its dealers. It can suggest recommended delivery charges, but according to Irish law (and companies have, in the past, had their offices raided for this sort of thing), dealers are allowed to charge what they want for delivery and related. A spokesperson for the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission told us that: "Consumer law requires traders to provide the total cost, including extras, of a product to a consumer before they buy. In the specific instance of when a manufacturer is advertising a car for sale, the manufacturer can only advertise the recommended retail price and state that delivery and related charges will be extra. If a consumer then decides to buy that car, they should be provided with the total price by the dealer before they buy. Auxiliary costs such as motor insurance, tax etc. are not dealt with specifically under consumer protection law. However, through our information campaigns, we would encourage consumers to do their homework about such costs before making a purchase."

We did contact Ford about the issue too, and it said: "It is an anomaly of the Irish market that has come down to us from our forebears. It is just the way the market is set up and all brands operate the system. Pretty much since the first Model Ts were hitting dealerships across the country, car brands always quoted an 'ex-works price' [in other words, the price of the car as it leaves the factory gates, not when it rolls off the dealer forecourt] for a car on top of which an extra charge was added. What is covered by that cost will vary from dealer to dealer, but for all of them, it covers the cost of delivery of the vehicle to their dealership. Many dealers will also include such items as the cost of the pre-delivery inspection (PDI), new plates for the car, perhaps a full tank of fuel. Each dealer will have their own range of items that are covered. So, ‘headquarters’ does not get involved in the setting of that cost or what is covered, it is all at the discretion of the dealer. In today's very competitive new car market, everything is up for negotiation and I am sure that many customers push the dealer on all aspects of the 'deal' including the delivery and related costs. Customers are savvy enough to do their homework, shop around and compare what is on offer across dealerships and indeed, across brands. More than ever, real value is what will win out in the marketplace.”


Best way to deal with a car I own in Spain?

This is probably a difficult question and if you don't have a clear answer, that's fine.

Upon retiring, I bought an apartment in Spain four years ago and for the past four years I've come and gone. Because I spent extended periods there it wasn't realistic to hire a car, so I bought a new car but then I made the mistake of replacing it in 2017. I was never tax resident in Spain and now intend selling up and coming back to Ireland permanently. Do you know what is the tax position of bringing the car back the Ireland? It might be better to sell it in Spain, but I'm unlikely to get a reasonable price, but equally if the VRT is very significant I should accept the loss.

Thanks

Philip

Philip Donegan (Ballina)

Jun 2018 Filed under: importing

Expert answer

Hi Philip,

It’s a tricky one. Technically, you’ve owned and used the car in Spain (and presumably taxed and insured it), which could, theoretically, mean that you can bring it in VRT-free, but the problem is your residency issue. As this was a holiday home, more than your full-time residence, it might not count. Usually, Revenue wants to see proof of change of address (rather than the end of use of an address) to give you the waiver on VRT. I think a chat to your accountant might be a good idea...


Should we get a second EV for towing?

Hi, a question about a second car. What would be a good choice for a second car for travelling to work that does small mileage (10-20 miles) daily? Our main car is a Nissan Leaf, which we use for the majority of our driving. A car that can tow a small trailer would be ideal, something with low tax and running costs. Budget is about 6-7 thousand euro, with the intention of trading in the car in a few years time for a newer model. Have thought of buying another electric car, but not sure about having two electric cars in household until longer range cars are available or charging network improves.

Thank you for your help.

Barry

Barry Slye (Cork)

Jun 2018 Filed under: electric cars

Expert answer

Hi Barry,

The problem with electric cars is that, generally, they’re not rated for towing (I think that the new Nissan Leaf is one of the first with a towing rating), so you’re probably going to have to switch back to petrol or diesel for this one. Probably your best bet is to go for something very conventional, such as VW Golf or Ford Focus, and maybe go for the estate version of one of those to give yourself a little extra versatility. A Toyota Auris Hybird would also work well, and would at least keep you going on half-electric power. Plenty of them around in your price range.


Is my Mondeo's tax bill correct?

I have a 2009 Ford Mondeo 2.0 140hp, but I think my car tax might be wrong. I have been paying €750 a year on this car. I'm only looking into it now after someone telling me it could be the wrong price; how can I look into this or who could I talk to about this?

Thanks

Thomas Madden (Kilcolgan )

Jun 2018 Filed under: taxation

Expert answer

Hi Thomas,

It’s possible. If your car is the 2.0-litre 140hp TDCi saloon with a manual gearbox, then its CO2 emissions should be rated at 156g/km, which would give you a motor tax bill of €570 a year. However, if it’s the automatic version, then the CO2 rating jumps to 189g/km, and that’s a €750 bill. 


Why do Irish car buyers not get discounts?

Hi,

I wonder if you could explain something I don't really understand about the Irish car buying market, even though I have a big interest in cars and the industry. Why is it that Irish car buyers hardly ever seem to get the sort of discounts that buyers in Britain do? I'm not just referring to the fact that overall new and used prices are cheaper there.

I wanted to buy a new or nearly new Peugeot 508 here recently and thought I would get a reasonable discount, which I pushed for, as that model does not sell as well as many of it's rivals and I thought the Peugeot dealer would be delighted to sell a saloon seeing as the market for them is declining so much and so many people now want SUVs instead. Alas, I could not get any sort of decent discount for a new or nearly new 508. It is well known that in Britain the buyer often gets a sizeable discount for car types or models that lag behind many rivals in sales, or for certain brands such as Vauxhall/Opel and Citroen. From what I observe and hear, you don't get decent discounts either for certain makes and models here in Ireland.

Higher VRT and other taxes here, don't explain these differences alone. I thought with Brexit and the vast increase in used and nearly new imports that Irish dealers would be more price competitive, but I'm surprised also that the prices of good fresh second hand cars here haven't come down more in this backdrop. For some good reasons, I'd prefer to buy here than from abroad, but it just seems that Irish car buyers can't catch the breaks that UK buyers get at all! Do you agree with me or can you kindly explain these differences in both markets?

Thanks, JC

JC Holohan (Waterford)

Jun 2018 Filed under: used car values

Expert answer

Hi JC,

The big issue, really, is the size of the market. In the UK, vast dealer groups, with multiple outlets, are the norm and, obviously, these groups can be more cost-efficient and can potentially offer bigger discounts. Although there are dealer groups in Ireland, the norm is still very much the individual family-run business. That’s equally true on the import side of things — although there are now importers here that are tied directly to the car maker itself, many are still private, individual, locally-owned companies and those struggle to match the sort of discounting that is more common in the UK market. Plus, the fact that we buy in and around 100,000 to 130,000 cars a year here means that there’s less volume to spread discounts across. The UK market shifts two million cars a year — a considerable difference. VRT and VAT costs also play into it, as the wholesale price is often kept artificially lower to try and keep the added tax price down as much as possible.

 

That’s the case for the defence at any rate. The case for the prosecution is much simpler — Ireland has long been a nation that rips off its citizens, and that’s not going to change any time soon.

 


Should an older camper mean vintage VRT?

I imported a 1972 Volkswagen T2  van from Europe. It is quite basic and not fully done up yet or restored. Revenue want to charge €800 VRT despite me paying only €800 for it when I bought it. I am being charged as a camper van, but I expected to be charged the flat vintage rate of €200 as it is over 40 years old. Should I not have been taxed the vintage rate? They say that is only for cars, but the website does not state that. It says all vintage vehicles and the VW T2 is a vehicle is it not?

Great if you could advise.

Ellen Armie (Dublin)

Jun 2018 Filed under: VRT

Expert answer

Hi Ellen,

Yes, theoretically I’d say you’re absolutely right. A classic VW T2 should be considered a classic, and not as a camper or anything else. To be honest, Revenue can be pretty useless when it comes to assessing VRT on classics and vintage cars, because the market in Ireland is so small for cars like that. What you’ll probably have to do is (unfortunately) pay the VRT up front, and then challenge it.

Get on to your local classic car club, or better yet a VW owners club for some expert opinion (in writing, of course) and maybe get your solicitor to draw you up a letter outlining why it’s a classic and not a camper. You should get a rebate, but it may take some time and effort.


My car was never imported correctly...

Hi,

I bought a Japanese car, but the person who brought it to Ireland didn't register it when he imported it here. Now I discover that over 6k is owed in penalties... What can I do?

Darren Curneen (Dublin)

May 2018 Filed under: importing

Expert answer

Hi Darren,

I think the first thing to do is to ‘lawyer-up’. You’re going to need some professional legal advice on this one. Basically, the law is pretty simple - once a car is in the country, you have a week to notify Revenue and make the booking at the NCT centre to have the car inspected, and 30 days to complete the process and get the new plates. Failure to do so means that Revenue can seize the car and they will only release it at their discretion, and on payment of a hefty fine. Plus there’s the issue of any unpaid motor tax.

As a purchaser, you should never buy a car that’s in Ireland, but still on its foreign plates. The law says it must be re-registered before being sold on. However, if you can show that you bought the car in good faith, and intended to follow the normal VRT procedure, then there might be a way through this for you. Clearly, the bulk of the onus is on the previous owner, but you definitely need to have a good solicitor on your side for this one.


Thinking of buying a car in the UK...

I am thinking of buying a UK car, but driving it in the UK for six months. Am I right to think VRT is only payable on entry to Ireland and what are the main documents you require for importation? Also I presume the VRT is calculated on the vehicle age and mileage entering Ireland?

William Neale (Malahide)

Apr 2018 Filed under: importing

Expert answer

Hi William,

Not quite. Actually VRT is calculated on the OMSP, or Open Market Selling Price, which is that which the Revenue Commissioners calculate the car would be worth if it were an original Irish registered model. So, yes, age and mileage do come into it, but it’s not quite as simple as that.

As for the UK residency thing, again it’s not quite that simple — yes, you can avoid VRT if you bring a car into the country that you can show has been taxed and insured for at least six months, by you, at an address in the UK, BUT you will be asked to provide proof that you’re moving from the UK to Ireland, and proof that you were living and working in the UK for at least 185 days prior to the transfer of residence. 


Diesel still best for high mileage?

So with so many car makers planning to phase out diesel engine options in 2019, what are the real options for high mileage drivers? Will there be big impacts on residual values for diesel cars purchased later this year? I drive about 40,000km a year and need to change later this year.

Thanks

Brian O Neill (Kilkenny)

Mar 2018 Filed under: diesel

Expert answer

Hi Brian,

The diesel question is a particularly thorny one, mostly because we don’t have any firm guidance from the Government on what is going to happen with the taxation system. If anti-diesel taxes are brought in, then that will definitely have a serious effect on diesel used prices. For now though, all we can reliably say is that diesel is still popular outside the major urban centres and, for the most part, it’s still the best choice for the long-distance driver. I say most part, because hybrids are improving all the time and such cars as the Kia Niro and Toyota Prius are well able to manage better than 60mpg even on long motorway hauls, while a Lexus GS 300h, for example, is every bit as frugal in daily driving as a rival diesel product.